JEWISH FORMER FAN, #2:

EARLIER JTR COMMENTS: In other words, you are complaining about our embryonic use of the very system that the Jewish community has always used towards achieving its OWN goals. What are our goals? To open the "attack" upon the Jewish Lobby to include a broad coalition of disparate groups (including any Jews who recognize the truths we reveal) towards reclaiming the American social, cultural, and political system, which was once supposed to be a "democracy."

JEWISH FORMER FAN: Your words state one thing, but impy another. You claim that your goal is to bring down Jewish power. For starters, this is a pointless goal in and of itself, not in the least because no one historically has ever succeeded at this- not for long anyhow.

CURRENT JTR RESPONSE: Sorry. Fighting injustice is always a meritorious goal. There's nothing "pointless" about it. All of history includes peoples' struggle for freedom against tyranny and injustice. And you're saying the Jewish Lobby is invincible? Is that an Orthodox religious belief speaking?

Bringing down power for its own sake is a futile and hypocritical goal, for it takes power to bring down power, and to fill the resulting vacuum.

One never tries to "bring down power" for "its own sake." And I also think "power" can topple due to its own corruption and decay. Like a tree eaten out by termites. The "power" to topple the Jewish Lobby's stranglehold is slowly beginning to take shape. It would be nice if "Jews" themselves help push over the dead tree and make the fields green again, but there seems more Jewish interest in poisoning things. But there are a few Jews in the dead Jewish tree who are bailing out, and that's good for everyone.

I believe that you, with your intelligence, are fully cognizant of this. In truth, your essential goal is not to bring down "power" or any other situation of human behavior, but to bring down Jews, period. Because we are Jews.

You are arguing that anyone who objects to Jewish social and political hegemony must go with the Judeocentric flow, that the Jewish Lobby is too powerful to confront, and that there is no "power' that can weigh in against them. AND to dare to criticize the Jewish community is to invite a moral "vacuum." Sorry, there's no sense to your argument. That's ethnocentric faith on your part.

You also state that the purpose of resisting Jewish Power and Hypocrisy is to "bring down Jews" "because they are Jews." Sorry. There's no logic to your argument and it is the standard Judeocentric one. It is a fundamental of Jewish self-conception -- stemming from the religious -- that anyone who dares to criticize Jews does it for no reason whatsoever, i.e., merely because "Jews are Jews."

There's zero sense to this notion. Jews are something else besides the word "Jews." What's a "Jew?" Once you start defining "Jews," therein lies what people criticize: Jewish beliefs and actions. Your feint is typical; you use the term "Jews" as a ridiculous mystification: there are people who want to "bring down Jews because they're Jews." That's a nonsensical riddle. And you are championing it. It has no logical substance. You know this. The idea of "Jews because they are Jews" is a serpent swallowing its own tail.

Why should Jews treat this "dissent" and "moral criticism" as anything other than the hostile attack it is?

You may treat justifiable criticism of the Jewish Lobby any way you like. The Jewish Lobby LIVES to "attack" (and censor) what it hates, which is criticism. But more and more criticism is coming around to the Jewish community's door. Not just from this little web site. Hardly. Look around. Read the news.

EARLIER JTR COMMENT: Your suggestion seems a little bit ethnocentric, don't you think? Or, frankly, extraordinarily ethnocentric. I think you reiterate one of the fundamental problems that this web site addresses, which is the great Jewish Blind Spot. The premise of this web site is not to accommodate Jews. Why should it be? Accommodating Jews is a foundation of mainstream Judeocentric culture. And this is actively policed and enforced.

Well, isn't the ultimate goal of criticism the elimination of those behaviors that are being criticized? And how can those behaviors be eliminated if there is no coherent consensus on what those behaviors are?

Oh, there's increasing "consensus." Here's a start: Israel. This is the central Jewish problem today. Of course, there's plenty more problems. But few Jews are going to progress anywhere until they grasp what Israel REALLY means to their community and identity. And it ain't pretty. What do you think about Israel? Much of your "Jewish" identity can be ascertained in your response to this question.

I did not think that the purpose of JTR was to accomodate me, but to change me and the group I am a part of. Since Jews cannot alter their behaviors to occomodate, say, both Muslim and Christian theological demands,

I don't think Jews should "alter their behaviors to accommodate" anybody. They simply ought to examine themselves and understand what a moral mess their community is in. And get to work fixing it. They don't need Christians, or Muslims, or anybody else to afford them permission to do that. But, alas, as long as the bulk of Jewry declares (like you) that people criticize Jews "because they are Jews," it guarantees a self-defeating, self-defensive inertia. It is total unwillingness to look in the moral mirror. You don't need a Christian or Muslim to take you by the hand to do that.

No one criticizes Jews "because they are Jews." They criticize what Jews believe and do. It is Jewish myth to think otherwise. And this myth is, of course, the heart of modern Jewish identity. Today's Jewish identity declares that those who criticize Jews are "anti-Semitic," and "anti-Semites" are reasonless and irrational. Jewish conviction decrees that "anti-Semites" criticize Jews only "because they are Jews." Please. Be real. Or, more correctly, be honest with yourself. This is a central problem in modern Jewish identity: self-delusion.

then I can conclude that the goal of your site is not to critique, with the intent of changing, Jewish behavior, but to attack Jews themselves.

We don't aim to "attack Jews themselves." We critique their racist, exploitive, ethnocentric ideology. To the degree human beings line up in the "Jewish" camp, they can expect to be criticized for their beliefs and actions. Why not? Christians get trashed by Jews all the time, not because "Christians are Christians," but because of what Christians believe or do/did. We line up the facts about "Jews" that the Jewish community resists examining. In fact, they censor such material. We let people from different social and political perspectives clock in about the problem, including even -- in this way -- you.

Is there some reason why you think that Jews should not legally protect themselves from the explicitly- and exclusively- harmful intent of you enterprise?

You have it backwards. Those who need protection are those who suffer suffocation, exploitation, fraud, and censorship at the hands of the moneybags Jewish Lobby. To the degree you call for "protection" against merely exposing to public view massive Jewish injustice, you are part of the problem.

Madam, once you position yourself on the righteous side of the struggle, freedom from the self-destructive "Jewish/Israeli" ideological burden can be quite liberating. You really have a choice in it.

But do you grasp what I'm saying to you? Of course not. You're a "Jew because you're a Jew," and therein lies the problem.