JEWISH FORMER FAN #3

FORMER JTR COMMENT: No one criticizes Jews "because they are Jews." They criticize what Jews believe and do. It is Jewish myth to think otherwise. And this myth is, of course, the heart of modern Jewish identity. Today's Jewish identity declares that those who criticize Jews are "anti-Semitic," and "anti-Semites" are reasonless and irrational. Jewish conviction decrees that "anti-Semites" criticize Jews only "because they are Jews." Please. Be real. Or, more correctly, be honest with yourself. This is a central problem in modern Jewish identity: self-delusion.

FORMER JEWISH FAN: You are against what Jews "believe and do"? Let me show you that this cannot be so. Criticizing Jewish beliefs and actions: Criticizing beliefs and actions that are independently wrong, their "Jewish" component only relevent to who is committing them. Why this can't be your motive: As stated in bold above, the essence of this motive is to bring down beliefs and behaviors. Everything else is incidental. Since there is no consistent consensus on JTR as to what those beliefs and behaviors are, then this is not your motive.

JTR RESPONSE: You know, it appears to me that you are role-playing a very, very bad lawyer, trying to create smokescreen verbiage to bury any reasoned discourse at all. For a quick sampler of traditional Jewish beliefs: 1) The "Chosen People" idea is racist. 2) The traditional Jewish idea that a Jew is a Jew by virtue of his/her mother is racist. 3) Modern Israel is racist. 4) The Talmud is racist. This is just a small whiff of the tons of stuff at this web site to whet your appetite. If you are a "Former Jewish Fan" of this web site, you should be able to fill out a very, very long list from what we've collected here.

JTR's other(?) stated motive is to bring down Jewish power and hegemony. Bringing down Jewish POWER: bringing down power because it is (unjustly) powerful, which in this case happens to be Jewish. Why this can't be your motive: You fully understand that bringing down any power requires a superior power, which usually ends up filling the resulting power vacuum. Therefore, all anti-power movements are fundamentally hypocritical and futile.

Sorry. With all due respect, it appears that you must be an 11-year old. "All anti-power movements are fundamentally hypocritical and futile" makes no sense at all. Sorry. That statement is completely ahistorical. You're being very silly. By your logic slaves are destined forever to be the chattel of their masters, because slave power is "fundamentally hypocritical and futile" and their "power" doesn't match their masters. And by your logic injustice will always rule. (And we're talking about Jewish injustice here, aren't we). Look. It doesn't appear that you really have a grasp of what you're saying. Unless what you really believe -- and this is what I suspect -- is that Jews are innately superior to everyone else.

I also wonder why you call yourself "Former Jewish Fan." Judging by everything you've said so far, it appears that your self-nomer is fraudulent. You are a fan of what? What at this web site do you sanction? All you're interested in is elliptical, inverted anti-reasoning to weasel Jewish belief and actions away from the microscope.

Bringing down JEWISH power: bringing down power because it is Jewish by nature. The "power" aspect is incidental to the first and foremost "Jewish" aspect.

Sorry. If the "power" we were discussing was Saudi, or Indonesian, or Muslim, or Hindu, or Amish, whatever, that would be the subject at hand. The issue is Jewish power, not Amish power. Look around you, madam.

I have shown above that your goal is not to bring down any SPECIFIC ACTIONS AND BEHAVIORS that are related to Jews and Jewishness.

Sorry. You have shown nothing except you are very clumsy dissimulater. And, yes, a Jewish one.

Yet we are left with "bringing down JEWISH power". Hence, we must conlude that the goal of JTR is to bring down Jews, period. "Power" and "behavior" notwithstanding.

That's like saying many Jews have bad feelings about Germans because they want to "bring down" Germans, irregardless of the social, political, and social world. Only because "Germans are Germans." And that is, of course, a completely illogical assertion. The same absurdity you use to try to say that people criticize Jews "because they are Jews." Before you try to defend Jewish bigotry, power, and racism again, you'd better think a while about a better tact.

FORMER JTR RESPONSE: Oh, there's increasing "consensus." Here's a start: Israel. This is the central Jewish problem today. Of course, there's plenty more problems. But few Jews are going to progress anywhere until they grasp what Israel REALLY means to their community and identity. And it ain't pretty. What do you think about Israel? Much of your "Jewish" identity can be ascertained in your response to this question.

FORMER JEWISH FAN: My Jewish identity is based entirely on religion.

This explains everything. "Chosen People," etc. You're a bigot. What on earth did you find at the Jewish Tribal Review that you endorsed?

No lox and bagels complex here. What do I think about Israel? It is part of me, and I am part of it.

You dig deeper your self-incrimination as a BLIND bigot. From the way you frame your world, you are a "Jew because you are a Jew" and you meld yourself to the world Jew Klux Klan as a non-thinking, amoral rivet.

This is entirely because of how I felt when I went there. It is not an enterprise seperate from me that exists only relative to my interests at the moment. Therefore, any attack (if it is an attack) on Israel per se and its identity as a part of me is a de facto attack on me. Imagine if someone started up with your mother, then told you that it was "not personal"! Or even, imagine someone saying, "I don't hate French people, I just hate France and think all French people should be forced to give it away and move to Spain".

You "attack" Israel (that is "you")? Where's the evidence?

You may dissagree- and I hope you are correct in the event that you do- but it is my educated belief that Israel does not consciously do anything to the Palestinians that is in excess of what it must do to protect its people.

Jews torture them. Slaughter them. Rob them of their culture. Legislate over them in giant concentration camps. Ban what they can do. Etc. Etc. Etc. Please. You should be ashamed of yourself. You have the morality of a comfortable predator.

If someone does not think that Jews possess the natural human right to self-defense,

ANYONE has the "natural human right" to "self-defense," and that includes the oppressed Palestinians and everyone who falls beneath the hammer of the worldwide Jewish Lobby.

then you cannot fault me for concluding that such a person is an irrational antisemite whose opinion I am not obligated to respect.
Former Jewish Fan

Sorry. Your text here seems like satire. Perhaps it is? Have I been tricked? Was calling yourself "Former Jewish Fan" part of a joke?

Madam, read the web site. Face up to the facts. Your community has a lot to be ashamed of. Why don't you become a Hindu or something? You don't need to spend the rest of your life calling people who disagree with you "irrational." Open your heart, throw the bigoted Jewish junk in the garbage, and look at the world with an open perspective.