Okay, here we are. Sorry about the slow response-time. Busy keeping the trains on time. Some general thoughts: I initially wrote to you because in one very limited area you and I want the same thing, and that’s for more Jews to honestly examine the shortcomings in their own history and culture.

OK. Good for you.

In other words, to prompt hard and critical self-examination. I want to see Jews do what Western civilization (particularly the United States) has done: discard the self-celebratory mythologies characteristic of premodern societies in favor of a modern and rigorous self-examination.

Excellent.

And to some extent Jews have done that, particularly so during the period stretching roughly from 1800-1945.

You say this, but give no examples. If you mean that many Jews grew out of their rigid Talmudic ghetto, in tune with the Enlightenment -- yes.

But even after that much more remains to be accomplished, and since WWII the process has reversed.

True.

In the United States this has partly been due to the fact that Jewish culture has been encouraged by PC social mores to defer that sort of critical self-examination, and (even worse) to revive archaic, premodern fantasies about the uncompromised purity and goodness of our “minority” culture.

Well said.

I want that damage undone, and I believe that smashing the PC approach to Jewry would be an enormous help. Historically, informed external criticism combined with the ability for average Jews to challenge the leadership of their community has been a fantastic combination for Jews.

Implicit in what you say here, that the Jewish "leadership" has led rank-and-file Jews astray, is probably true. But rank-and-file Jewry must also take their reasonable amount of responsibility for the myths and self-delusion they today champion.

It’s prompted theological reform movements, internal economic reform movements, lots of very good things. Of course ideally self-criticism will be self-generated, and often it is, but right now I’ll take it however it comes. So informed criticism is a very good thing and I continue to be happy that your website exists and glad that you are doing what you are doing.

Thank you. I'm glad you're "doing whatever you're doing."

But I see some flaws. Flaws that will limit your effectiveness and credibility with people who you might otherwise have reached. Flaws, incidentally, that will make you far less threatening to “organized Jewry” because for the most part those flaws will limit you to people who are on the far left or right of the political spectrum.

Firstly, I see no logic in your assumption that only people on the "far left" and "far right" will find this web site of value. How could that be? People across the WHOLE ideological spectrum are subject to influence by the facts we compile. Obviously. The issue of openness to this web site is really the simple matter of those who have the time and energy to actively engage in the examination of modern culture and Jewry's role in it. That, for the most part, will probably be the intelligentsia. Across the political spectrum.

I also don't see anything you've pointed out so far to be "flaws." This web site is plenty "threatening" to "organized Jewry" because the documentation is so overwhelming here. Their tactic to subvert this site will be to try and ostracize it, to build a wall of silence around it, and to pathologize it with smears when possible. To actually confront this site (say, featuring it widely as an example of "anti-Semitism") would totally backfire to their interests. It would inadvertently direct and invite sleeping people (including some Jews of your genre) to take a look for themselves at the troubling evidence we've collected. "Organized Jewry" won't publicize this web site. If they ever do, it'll be pleasant surprise.

I think the greatest Jewish critics of the hypocrisies and embarrassments of the Jewish community probably just walk away from it all and there's no reason they'd be interested in this examining this subject any more. They know the score. By definition, we can't reach them, nor need we, since they pretty much understand the issues at hand.

I will also point out to that, despite your decreed "flaws" at this web site that you think would prevent Jews from honestly considering its merits, you have found your way here. If you can, so can others.

In our last two exchanges I had one goal: to try and show you those flaws and encourage you to correct them.

You focused on equating failings of the powerful and the disempowered under the same lens, as if they were of equal world importance. As I have stated, we resist that as being a distortion of political reality and the relative manifestations of ethnic power and chauvinism.

I now see that that was pointless, because the flaws are an essential part of your worldview.

Sorry, I say the same about your world view.

Your insistence on mischaracterizing what I called “an honest comparative context” in which to examine Jews initially perplexed me, but now I get it. I have no interest in your presenting “equal time” for Jews and other groups. Obviously, to do so would be impossible as you could come up with an endless number of groups to whom to give time. My point was that to COMPLETELY decontextualize Jewry’s flaws, as you do;

Not so. Look. From Day One, the birth of this web site, we've featured a long list of links at our home page that, at a click of a button, takes the reader into the "Contextualizing" land you want so badly to see. Links to the Anti-Defamation League, the American Jewish Congress, AIPAC, ad nauseum are featured, plain as day. Its the opposite of what's featured here. Readers here are afforded vanilla and chocolate, red and blue, night and day. These many links represent what the Jewish community presents about itself, so incredibly one-sided. Our web site balances this propaganda, nicely. That is the purpose of this web site: to counter all that Judeocentric and Zionist nonsense. Not to bodyslam Islam, or any other ideology. If that's so important to you, you're free to start your own web site.

People can read JTR comments and articles, they can read all the multi-million dollar Jewish snowjobs, and they can even read your views on things. All of it is within reach at our web site. That's pretty reasonable. Look for a link to this web site at any major (or minor) Jewish organization, to give a full picture of the Jewish community. There is, of course, none. I'm not being facetious about this. I'm underscoring how open we are to helping anyone get information about Jewish power, history and identity -- quite literally. You're really being disingenuous with how we function as a resource center, when we even provide access to contesting world views.

Now, are we going to feature all the Jewish fluff at this web site, stuff we don't believe in? No. Of course not. But we link to it, so people can examine different versions of the issues at hand and make up their own minds about things.

Your portrayal of this web site is a caricature. And it is unjust.

to frequently refer to Jews as though they are homogeneous and uniform, as you do;

You misrepresent what I've said. Chassids and Jewish atheists and communists aren't "homogeneous and uniform." But, again, I pose the troubling question that both you and Jody evade: what makes them both "Jews." What's the common denominator between them? THAT's what counts in any honest examination of Jewish identity. We've been discussing the Jewish community for a few rounds, but you've never put all your ideological cards on the table.

these things simplify and distort your message to the point that only the choir will be willing to shout Hallelujah.

I don't think so. You are a good example of someone who resists some of the foundational premises of this web site but are in fact shouting "Hallelujah," at least in part. And you're Jewish. It's not hard to imagine that there are others who recognize the value of this web site in the same way you do, who need NOT be Jewish.

And the choir isn’t enough. But between our exchanges and the ones you’ve had with Judy you’ve fleshed out your handicap: you say being Jewish is incompatible with universalism, but then say being Muslim or Christian or a Kenyan or French (or “a member of a professional bowling league”) is not.

Saying that Judaism isn't a universalistic religion is not a "flaw." And it has nothing to do with me. It's history. The idea that Judaism is incompatible with universalism isn't my idea. There are various Jewish commentators who've said as much -- some as critics, others seeking to uphold Jewry in its classical "Nation Apart" syndrome. It is the tradition of Judaism and, hence, the origin of Jewish identity. I didn't invent this notion. Look it up for yourself. Just focus, largely, on pre-1945 sources, before the avalanche of Jewish smokescreening began. (I refer you to your own earlier comment about the timeline of more honest Jewish introspection).

Jewishness, uniquely among the ethnic and religious identities which human beings assume, is incompatible with a love for your fellow man.

Here you use that term again, "uniquely." Why is that? And, again, you misrepresent me. There are plenty of ideologies that are not "universalistic." Judaism is one of them. That's not news to those who have studied this issue.

And there you have it. If that’s not bigotry on your part, good sir, then nothing under the sun qualifies as bigotry.

It doesn't appear that you grasp the dimensions of hypocrisy in what you're saying here: a hypocrisy intrinsic to modern Jewry identity.

You state here that my position is that of "bigotry." Yet you have not responded to any of my last points in this email exchange -- none at all -- as evidence to substantiate your claim. Instead, you just go for the generic smear. What is so different between this evaluation of yours and that of any Jewish propaganda agency, which will echo almost exactly your position here: this web site is "bigotry," "racism," "hate," "Nazism," ad nauseum.

No, this web site is none of those things. It a massive compilation of facts and data towards balancing the scales of those, like you, who condemn it as "bigotry."

The irony, of course, is that it is the Jewish accuser who is intrinsically the "bigot" (and this is becoming more and more apparent to people across the political spectrum), starting with the categoric smearing of that which he/she simply does not like.

And if you honestly believe that then there’s little to be gained by continuing this discussion further.

Your choice. You're always welcome here to test my views. But I note to you again that the REAL issues that separate our perspectives were finally spilled out into the light in our last email exchange (especially the latent subject of modern Israel, and your personal links to "Jewish" identity -- whatever they are, i.e., your distinct "world view," which you have not articulated). As we approach those items, you recognize a rocky road ahead in our exchanges. As I do. Further discussion would tread upon some very troubling areas.

There aren’t enough shared premises to have a productive conversation.

We are a million miles apart on Israel. And, as I've said, this is the heart of our differences, which therein oozes into a Pandora's Box of issues and, as you yourself earlier noted, Jewish hypocrisies and paradoxes. The modern state of Israel is at the core of them.

I still think you perform an important service in cataloguing Jewry’s flaws, and I’ll continue to refer other Jews to your site to check out those catalogues as well as checking in on them myself. Shalom and Good luck to you.

Thanks for your time and energy. Good luck to you as well.